Mele Williams: Changing the narrative with sentiments

Todd Jones 0:04
Hey, everyone, welcome to the storyteller cafe today. My name is Todd Jones and I have with me Mele. Williams, who is a number of things, it’s kind of hard to nail her down. So she’s got a variety of skills. And we’ll talk about that in just a minute. But we’re going to get to the story of a product she’s selling. But first Mele, if you wouldn’t mind, take a moment to introduce yourself and tell us what you’re drinking or what’s your favorite coffee is?

Mele Williams 0:32
All right. Well, I am Mele Williams, like you said, and I am currently drinking water. But I hang out with my husband at a bookstore. It’s a Barnes and Noble bookstore, but it’s in a smaller part of Annapolis, Maryland, and we go in there, Barnes and Nobles, at least most of them have a Starbucks. And I always get the either in the wintertime, I’ll get the macchiato. It’s called he always for me, upside down with Carmel and extra flavor and the frappuccino or I think it’s called in the summertime. So good. So you’re

Todd Jones 1:11
not into the dark coffee record stuff?

Mele Williams 1:14
I am it depends on what day of the week it is. I really, really am. I’m really susceptible to caffeine, as I’ve gotten older, I’m not going to tell my age. But I and I it’s really hard for me to like sleep. So I’ve had to come back, unfortunately. So I get to like a half and half a lot, even with the you know, macchiatos and so forth. But yeah,

Todd Jones 1:39
Starbucks is your place of choice to get your coffee.

Mele Williams 1:43
Yeah, it’s actually there’s a small coffee shop and I cannot remember the name of it because they changed but there’s in Annapolis, Maryland, maybe I’ll get it to you later. So you can put it in the show notes. Because I would love to because they’re, I mean, their lattes are phenomenal. So I got to give

Todd Jones 2:02
a shout out to you. You like the espresso based drinks with all the flavor and that kind of stuff in there. Now Yeah. Yep. flavor. You know, in I have said it and you guys have giggled in the in the backroom, but I am the Redneck coffee style. I am a coffee snob in the sense that like there was there’s a new place in town. It’s a drive thru place. And it’s based out of Rogers. I know your husband’s from that area. Rogers, Arkansas and they have several and they just put one in Conway, which boggles my mind because we have four independent coffee shops. That’s not counting the plethora of Starbucks we have as well. And it’s called seven brew. And they were talking about it in the Facebook or local town one. Everybody was talking about all these sweet drinks. And I’m like, do they make actual coffee? Because that’s what I care about. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I’m sure they do. But I prefer like a pour over French press or aeropress. So Stephen, I steamrollered. I will geek out about that. Sometimes he’s telling me what he uses and all that kind of thing. So yeah, anyway, it’s always interesting to hear what people like when it comes to coffee. So doesn’t sound like you go to Starbucks or anywhere else just to get plain coffee.

Mele Williams 3:24
No, I’ve got I’ve done it. You know what, I’m just sort of like, I just want something plain. I don’t want to do the sweet thing. But I have had great coffee. So I do know the difference between you know, not to put down Starbucks, but I do know the difference between Starbucks and some other you know, like some of the local independent purchases. I know the difference. I can taste the difference.

Todd Jones 3:45
nothing but respect for Starbucks. I mean, they basically built the coffee culture that we enjoy now. So nothing but respect. For Starbucks, yes. Actually, today I went by random coffee, which is my favorite shop in town and bought a two pound bag which they ground for me to bring to my office and has been reaching out and see me in a while. So I’ve been drinking your coffee almost every day at my office. So but happy to get that levels guys and not all the shops in town. I know all the owners. It’s fun to watch them succeed. And everybody has their favorite one, which is cool when we got free colleges in town, and all the students go they all have one thing I had to go to and that’s that’s great. So the coffee culture is fun. You know. Laura Stewart was a barista set one time, and she’s in a back room as well. And she was and she she used to be a breach that I was actually on her briefs to talk podcast so I can talk coffee with almost anybody. But that’s not what we’re here to talk about, although it is a kind of backdrop if you will What are you talking about? And we’ll get eventually to your product. Then you said before we got on the show, you said I’ve never in my wildest dreams imagined that would be in the product based business, you know, creating product and selling it. And in in, those are very unique. And I don’t think there’s anything like what you’re doing. But before we’d ever get there, let’s go back to to the beginning of your career, if you will, because you said, you have you have communication strategy, and you also are a lawyer. Am I correct? Yes, yes. Yep. Was that what did you get in college?

Mele Williams 5:37
Well, I, I majored in political science, is that what you mean, politically in college, because I knew I wanted to go to law school. But interestingly enough, when I was in sixth grade, I, you know, the teachers saying, write out your, what you want to do when you grow up. And you know, they had us do it in in an essay. And I wrote, I want to be a lawyer. And I want to be an author, author. I may have said, I think I said author, not writer, so I knew that I wanted to do to have a writing career of some kind. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s funny, I, well, I’d be aging myself. But john Grisham didn’t have books back then. Of course, I mean, you know, he’s more, more of contemporary, although he’s been around for a while. But yeah, I loved his books, I read, you know, read, I think all of his books, except for maybe the last, you know, one or two reason. But I knew I wanted to do that. And I wanted to be, you know, a fiction writer at the time. And so, um, and in fact, when I was 12, there was used to be these magazines and magazine that would have ads in the magazine that would say, um, you know, something about, maybe you want to write books for children. And it was his correspondence course. Do you remember those? Do you? I don’t know if you know what I do. But it was, yeah, it was an ad for a correspondence course. And I was 12 years old. And I wrote that my little application sent it in, because I thought I was old enough to I was a kid. So I thought I could write kids books, because I am a kid. And, of course, a very politely sent a letter back and said, you know, yeah, when you get a little older, you know, apply again, and all that, but so I knew pretty much back, you know, back back back then I that I was on a new it would be on a two career track, you know, at some point. So,

Todd Jones 7:26
yeah, so your original idea was to become a lawyer. Defend the truth and justice, I guess. And then on the side, right, the fiction books with maybe even in there, the thing about a lawyer, and I worked with a lady in the bookstore, you talked about Barnes and Noble earlier, I worked at Borders Books for about eight years. And at one time, I worked with a lady who had a legal degree since she worked in a bookstore. Well, at one point, she was in HR, and borders, like in corporate, but was working in store with me, so, but legal, and history has this major overlap a lot of research involved. So you can easily use those skills to research the topic, what you’re writing about, especially if you’re doing historical feet fiction.

Mele Williams 8:16
Right. Right. And I love historical fiction. And, you know, like, you were saying that you mentioned Borders, I listened to a previous podcast, when you talked about Borders, my husband, I used to hang out in Borders before they close down. So I love borders as well. But yeah, I mean, you know, when you’re, when I think about back then I knew that I wanted to be a lawyer, because I like to argue, and, you know, even in the younger grades, you know, there were teachers in social social studies, teachers that would have like, mock trials. And so I did really well in cross-examination, and I was always analyzing things. But I always, I always wrote when I was a young youngster, I mean, I wrote plays for, you know, that we put on before my hand in front of my parents, and then I wrote little short stories. And I always want all the essay contests in, you know, school, I was on the school newspaper, one state contest, so a lot of people in fact, my mother’s best friend was a guidance counselor, and she says, you know, maybe you should push her in the, not push her, but, you know, encouraged her to go to the writing route, because she’s so great at it, you know, and but I said, I’m gonna do both, I’m just gonna be a lawyer first, and then you know, I’ll go ahead and, you know, write my fiction books and then phase out of law and be a best selling author. So

Todd Jones 9:41
yeah, I think when kids have multiple ideas, I think it’s best to encourage that, you know, because you don’t know I mean, you know, something can happen, the legal thing, the law thing that worked out and you’re an author, something can happen and that you become the best trial lawyer in history. You know, You just don’t know what’s gonna happen, keep those because they’re skills. I equate this a little bit with being an athlete, right? when they’re in school, these days, they push kids to, to focus on one athlete or one, one sport, you got these traveling teams for baseball, basketball, and the kids focus. And when I was a kid, we usually did at least one other sport, and some did at least three sports. Now, we may not have been as good at one or one of those sports, you know, as maybe somebody focus, but you develop skills in all the sports and I, you know, not that many people from my class went to college to do athletics, but I felt like, you know, when you had a kid, anytime a school gets a kid who can do more than one thing, I think they’re just a better athlete overall. And there’s different skills you pick up from one sport that you don’t get another sport, I learned that my nephew is focused in on baseball, and baseball is a lot of hand eye coordination. It’s a different kind of athlete than basketball and football. And, you know, you can get more hand eye coordination, which can help you in other sports as well. But that’s the same things like when a kid wants to do more than one thing, don’t shut one of those avenues down. Let it you know, develop it, let it go.

Mele Williams 11:24
Yes. And my parents did, did encourage that. I don’t have to admit,

Todd Jones 11:29
it’s a good thing. So you finished college, or you went to college, you got the law degree. And did you go practice right away,

Mele Williams 11:39
I worked for a judge. And then I got married, got pregnant with my son right away, and had a had a stint in insurance. And so I was in a department that was called the subrogation department without going into all the details of sort of like, you know, right before something will go out a case will go out to the lawyer to try and work it out. So it was sort of Lord lawyer Lee type of thing, but it was on with an insurance company. And then I left there to actually work with one of their outside attorneys who wanted me to come into practice with him. silly thing is, though, he forgot to tell his wife, he was bringing in a partner. And so when we became when I was supposed to start, he, his wife was like, you’re not bringing in a partner, you’re already not bringing enough money in this practice, because he had just been in practice for about a year. And she was like, if you, you know, she made his life miserable. Because he was bringing a partner, we were going to be 5015. So we, it was it wasn’t exactly pretty, but we ended up working out working it out where he paid me a sum of money. And I decided to just go on my own Actually, I was going to try to go back to my, my old job, I begged my, you know, let me come back. Let me come back. And he’s like, you know, what, why don’t you try to do something on your own? I think, you know, you know, you’re, you’re still young, but you still have some experience under your belt, maybe try to do it on your own and see what happens. And I did that for a little short time. Um, I don’t know if you want me to tell you this story about that. But did you

Todd Jones 13:17
did you specialize in something or just take whatever walked in the door?

Mele Williams 13:21
What’s funny, it’s a little bit of both I, um, the way I’ve marketed my business. And you know, you and I have been in freelance copywriting. We know about the whole direct response writing? Well, I actually would write I wrote a sales letter. And I would actually, instead of mailing it, I would drop it off at the different law firms. And the sales letter said, Hey, you know, I’m just starting out. I know, sometimes attorneys like, like, you get, you know, you get inundated with cases, send me the cases that you don’t want. And, you know, I’ll be glad to take them off your hand. Well, the cases they didn’t, yeah, they overflow. And also the cases they just didn’t want to deal with. And I didn’t realize that I was thinking overflow. Yeah, but they didn’t want to deal with a lot of the cases where like, the maybe the messy custody cases, and, you know, some divorces, that they thought would probably not be fun for them, you know, and not be necessarily lucrative. So I worked with a lot of people who, you know, they were going to do custody issues, and they didn’t have the money, the money for a trial. And so that’s when sort of my negotiation skills were honed because I had to, you know, really help them try to settle their cases. Not because they didn’t, couldn’t pay me and I didn’t, you know, I knew they couldn’t, I would probably be stuck with a bill for trial, but I encourage them, you know, I was honest with them, it’s gonna cost you a pretty penny if you go to trial, and I’m willing to do that. But if you you know, or feeling like you could work this out, let’s work it out. And so it took That’s kind of how I got into so some of the communications type of, you know, gigs that I did later on. So

Todd Jones 15:10
that makes sense. Um, so basically a lot of family law.

Mele Williams 15:14
But what I mean, yeah, I did family law I did. And that’s where I started out. But I really didn’t, I wouldn’t say that I was a general practitioner, because I did somewhat I do at some was a win-win people that negotiation collections law. I did, you know, I represented, you know, a guy who’s had to go before the federal agencies, IRS, and all of that, and it helped him, you know, set him up for those types of inquiries, you know, because he had an employee that was did some bad stuff. So I, you know, of course, he was responsible. So again, I saw a pattern in law where I was helping people really kind of communicate a little bit. Um, and that’s, again, where the writing came in, because I would write out little like, maybe a script for them, not telling them what to say. But if they told me they wanted to say something, you know, I would say, Well, this is probably a good way to say it, especially if you’re going to be in an inquiry with the IRS, and the FBI, which is what one of my clients had to deal with. And so,

Todd Jones 16:20
so were these fee-based type services? Like, do you charge them a fee for what you did? Yes, yes. Yes. So you probably weren’t getting ahead too much.

Mele Williams 16:33
I wasn’t getting ahead. It was really hard. I mean, I had, you know, one client that owed me like, I mean, $10,000. Because, you know, he, his, his employee kind of wiped them out. But I had already been in with the company. And I was like, you know, I can’t leave couldn’t leave him hanging when he was dealing with these inquiries with the IRS, FBI, whomever. And he actually ended up paying me, but he couldn’t pay me right away. So it was a struggle. It was a struggle. But I learned so much.

Todd Jones 17:03
So while you’re doing that, did it dawning you, dawn on you that, hey, I’m pretty good at this communication stuff. Or it’s just something that one day you woke up and somebody said, Hey, you should do more of this. This way. I can see how you would fall right into what’s the word I’m thinking of is leeward, but when you’re when you’re helping people, negotiate the

Mele Williams 17:30
settlement. Settlement? Well, it’s definitely

Todd Jones 17:35
Yeah, I mean, that’s not exactly the word I’m thinking about. But there’s a you know, sometimes they bring lawyers in to help

Mele Williams 17:41
Oh, mediation.

Todd Jones 17:42
That’s exactly. Yeah. So did you roll in the mediation with your services? or How did the copywriting take me from, hey, I’m a lawyer that’s getting really good at communication, as I’ve helped my clients in the settings to where you ended up doing copywriting?

Mele Williams 18:03
Well, it’s funny, I, um, before I had, when I was working at the insurance company, I was in a Borders. And I saw a book, I’m always in the book section, and I saw a book set that said something about freelance writing their freelance business writing or something like that, and I, that kind of planted a seed for me, right. So that’s what happened, then skip ahead to me, in this practice. Um, I sort of noticed, you know, like, he was saying that I kind of pick up on that I kind of picked up on that I had some sort of skill in that in that area of communication and helping people communicate. But it was more about it was it was interesting to me, very interesting to me. So I ended up going into applying for a job and was actually an independent contractor. position with a company called you’ve ever heard of skill path, it was like the skill path seminars, national seminars, those public seminar companies now if you’ve ever heard of them, but, um, I decided to do, I said, You know, I would love to speak, you know, maybe I can do something with legal compliance. So long story short, I started teaching seminars, legal compliance seminars, through this as an independent contractor through this seminar company, and I did it through some like a nonprofit as well, this legal stuff. Then one day, I got sick of the legal stuff, tired. And I was like, this is you know, it’s just to wasn’t boring. But it was very, it was sort of like, I wanted to do something that was more of a soft skill type of thing. And so I decided, you know, I asked if I could teach a communications class, you know, and I thought it would be easy, you know, who doesn’t know how to communicate. If you’re if you’re a lawyer, you have to know how to communicate Right. And it was really kind of difficult because it was it was talking about communicating with, with diplomacy and professionalism. And so the people that were there were having problems communicating. And their workplaces, maybe there were a manager, who, you know, was good at the technical skills, but couldn’t communicate well to employees. And so I had a, I had a kind of a rough time with that at the beginning, because I was just listening to what they were saying more so than teaching. But then one day, someone said to me, I have a problem with an employee who has body odor, can you tell me what I’m what I should say to them. And I had already taught them a process of initiating a tough conversation. So I apply that formula to a script that I literally uttered from the floor in that moment. And I was like, wow, this was not too hard. This was, it was fun. And this is like the writing that I like to do the creative writing, not necessarily story writing, you know, fiction, but it is, you know, writing. So I started doing that over and over and over again, in this particular communications class, and I got good at it. And I got good feedback from participants. And then that’s when I said, you know, maybe I can do something with freelance writing in this area. And I’d started doing different things within freelance writing, but my favorites are writing scripts for, like, anything, I always say describe it as any words that other people would utter. So it would be could have been a talking head, a script for a talking-head video where, you know, people are just kind of speaking to the camera and talking about their business, you know, voiceovers, I did radio scripts, and things of that nature. And you know, a few other things. I did some fiction type stuff as well, for like a Christian TV station. And it was just fun. I just like writing dialogue. And so I said, Wow, this is really, this is this, I think this is it for me. And then but perhaps I can do a little bit, you know, something different down the line with fiction, but I really enjoyed this.

Todd Jones 22:12
So at this point, are you still working in legal or have you stepped completely out of legal

Mele Williams 22:17
I had, I had stepped out of legal when I started doing the, the training because the legal compliance training took me all over the country, I was traveling maybe 20. Gosh, 20 days out of the month, you know, it was it was a lot of travel. So I did that for about six or seven years. And

Todd Jones 22:35
then you asked them to let you do communications class.

Mele Williams 22:40
Yes. And I started doing more. Yeah.

Todd Jones 22:42
And so and then you then you go into the the script writing was that in addition to working for the company, the skill company that is in addition to that, or did you say,

Mele Williams 23:02
yeah, yeah, I’m sorry to cut you off. But I get what you’re saying. Yeah, there was some overlap. Now that I’m thinking about those a little bit of overlap I had looked at and remember I told you, I saw the book and borders. I actually went and got maybe not that book. But I got a similar book. And I think I got a book called well fed writer up here, Peter Bellman. He was sort of like a contemporary of like, the bob Bly Indians and all that. I think I got Ed Gandia’s book, which is the wealthy writer, I believe. And so I was still training while I was reading those books. And I had maybe I don’t even know if I actually even had clients. I think I was maybe like, just, I think I had a coaching session with one of with Steve Bauman, and just trying to figure out what I wanted to do. But I remember during one of my training sessions, we had books that we needed to sell as well, for our clients. And I wrote out all the copy the sales copy for the books, and I would write them on a little piece of paper and put them in front of the book displays to get people to pick up the books to read them with hope, with in the hopes that they would buy them eventually. So that’s kind of how it started. But there was some overlap with the training.

Todd Jones 24:16
So at some point, you were at that point, you were just writing like scripts for different business settings. That was your that was what you were doing at some point.

Mele Williams 24:25
Yeah, I started out. I did. I think I did a couple I did a sales letter. So I didn’t start out doing scripts. You know, how they say start out doing different things. I think I did a sales letter. I did do some scripts for someone who introduced me to a video marketing company. And I did some scripts for some of the people in that group. And that’s when I fell in love with actually writing like dialogue and that type of thing. So then I got into I got a stint with a national bread company. Writing I wrote a radio For them, that was exciting because I heard my radio, my script on the actual radio once when I was in the car, so that was pretty cool. But so yeah, so a little bit of overlap with the training in the in the freelance writing.

Todd Jones 25:15
So you’re having fun you’re writing, you’re writing stuff here in your writing off script dialogues, that kind of thing for different companies get to hear your own script on the radio, which I’m sure it’s thrilling. And I did that. But it sounds to me like you’ve come a little bit from the direct response, copywriting branch of copywriting. Is that accurate to say?

Mele Williams 25:40
Um, I think maybe not so much. I did, like a sales letter or two. Um, I think I may have done a case slip case study or two. But then when I did the scripts, that’s when I decided, Okay, this is what I want to do.

Todd Jones 25:59
Yeah, I don’t have a lot. I don’t have any personal experience with script writing. I do have a copywriter friend who has done some of that. He also does sales letters too, by the way. So it’s kind of interesting. He should Pakistan. And so I find that fascinating out, you know, there, I did a lot more radio listening growing up, and you still have commercials on the radio. And it’s such a different thing than like, when you write you know, even conversion, copywriting, you’re doing certain thing and radio. I mean, sometimes they don’t even do the same thing. But it’s just a different animal, which I’ve never had the privilege of doing. I think it would be kind of interesting. Did you do any TV or just radio?

Mele Williams 26:45
I did TV for a, like a, I guess it’s a cable type of station. It was a Christian station. So they needed someone to take like big biblical stories and write actually the dialogue for it and what you know, what probably was sent in without, you know, making it up. And, you know, taking the Bible out of context. But when they gave me some really strict guidelines, that was fun. And in fact, it’s funny. I’m glad you asked that question, Todd, because I, my husband, the reason I got that gig is because my husband was doing some volunteer acting for this particular Christian cable station, they had like a children’s division. So he was doing some acting in the children’s division. And I remember sitting in, I guess, it was the trailer where they could see like, everything that was going on in one set. And they were trying to come up with a word to, for some part of the dialogue, that was one, just one word that didn’t fit in this particular bit of dialogue. And they were like, going around, and I was just sitting there, supposedly observing, but they were like, Well, what about this? Or what about that word? And I finally said, Well, what about this, can you remember what the word was, but do like that the work that that word will work. And so that is when it kind of further, you know, confirmed that this was something that I had, you know, a little bit of talent for, it’s certainly a lot of interest in. So it was pretty neat. That experience.

Todd Jones 28:17
So you had interest, you had fun, you’ve really liked what you’re doing, which is a great feeling to be doing something you really, really like doing. Which, for the record is what I’m doing right now. I love this. I love doing this. I love people and getting the story. Was it translating into success in the checkbook? I don’t want to say, I don’t mean where you get rich. I mean, you know, was it? You know, you weren’t a starving artist in this situation? I’m guessing.

Mele Williams 28:50
Well, I was I wasn’t making the money that I wanted to make. So I get paid. Okay. But I think with me as what happens with a lot of people is that, you know, I wasn’t that great at, I was better at sales, and I thought I was a pretty good sales person. I guess I could pitch well, because I used to write pitches for people as well, you know, that type of thing. But for me, I just got so caught up in the work that I just really forgot. Okay, wait a minute, I need to fill the pipeline a little bit so that this can get you know, I’m excited to make more money because as an attorney, as I mentioned to you before, remember, I was getting referrals from people. So I was used to a sort of a referral based business in the in, in the practice of law. And then when I was a trainer, I mean, they like I said, I think I was traveling 2020 days out of the month, maybe 15 days out of the month, and they would send me assignments. So it wasn’t really I didn’t have to really pitch or sell myself in those other endeavors, so it was really hard for me to make the money that I should have made. Because I wasn’t really, you know, filling my pipeline and pitching myself as well as I should. And even then, a lot of the assignments I received were just were referrals.

Todd Jones 30:16
So how does one fill up a pipeline for, for script writing like that?

Mele Williams 30:23
Well, it’s funny, because, you know, as I said, I, you know, my, my response to that was to sort of kind of maybe partner with other people, like I was trying to partner with, like videographers, and people like that. And I had gotten when that there was that live streaming was coming down the pike, this was, you know, people were doing it. But there was like that really highly technical people. So they had none of the platforms like we have today. And I but I said, Well, maybe I should partner with someone who’s in, you know, video, who’s a videographer, or maybe in the live stream, and I actually created a website, not a business website. It’s called wherever TV by now where I was going to do the scripts, and I was going to find someone to do the technical part, the video part. And that really did not that I got frustrated with not being able to find someone who knew the technical stuff of live stream because I was thinking about doing, you know, I really wanted to do the live stream, I knew that that was something that was going to be really important that was back in 2010-2011 is definitely gonna do us a much bigger deal.

Todd Jones 31:34
If you listen to my first interview guests. Jan Koch, he helps people put on live summits, basically, well, virtual summits, but love medium or live. And so yeah, I have dipped my toes into the live stream world the last couple of years. And obviously, with the COVID situation, it’s kind of exploded a little bit. Right. So there’s ample places for someone with authority to go and speak, or even do their own. But that’s, that’s another conversation. But if you’re listening to this, and you’re interested, go back to episode number two, and listen to the conversation I had with Jan and you can look at some of the materials he has. So you’re doing the video script? And is this was there anything after that before you got to the product? Or did you

Mele Williams 32:29
Pretty much just doing the scripts, I mean, I was you know, I would maybe do some training here. And there, I did the training for a while until I got you know, while doing the freelance writing, because I just wasn’t making the money in freelance writing. And part of that could have been also that I was traveling a lot and you know, that type of thing. Um, but yeah, nothing really in between that. I mean, I would always do things like maybe I made substitutes sometimes. And, you know, maybe at one point, I was driving Uber and doing these things, just to kind of, you know, because I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do as things were slowing down. And you know, my parents were getting older, so I was helping them out and with care and things like that when they got sick. So I didn’t have as much time to, or I should say much mental, mental energy to do a lot of the pitching that I wanted to do. But I was I had a lot of energy to do the thinking that I wanted to do and to figure out where I want to go next.

Todd Jones 33:34
Yeah, that there’s always a period of time and sometimes multiple times where you sit there and think about the big picture thinking about, you know, seems like every couple months, I’m like, okay, is this really what I want to do? You know, what, what, you know, backup and, yeah, and but that’s, but that time is so important, right? I mean, because if you’re going down the wrong path, and you just keep going down the wrong path, you’re going to not end up where you want to be. So sometimes you stop drive an Uber for a while, work at the coffee shop, whatever. And kind of step back and go, I kow, it’s not reasonable for everyone to do that. And I get that. It’s, it’s tough to make a change. know when you’re hurtling down a particular path, even if it’s not when you like, or where you really want to go, it’s tough to make that change. And you say, Well, yes. How what was the storytelling? talked about last year, so most people heard me but I’ve been thinking about longer that it’s like, gotta actually do this, you know, but also you got to actually get money in the bank to pay the bills. So it’s, it’s kind of a catch 22 but sounds like that was a good time for you to kind of step back and go, what am I doing?

Mele Williams 34:53
Yeah, it was and it was a time when the my brand called the Diplomatic Scribe was born. And that’s when I, you know, I had mentioned to you before we started, that I was on a podcast, I’m a freelance writer, again, dia. And I know, you know, Ed, I was on his podcast, I started the diplomatic scribe, which was a way for me to help people create scripts, or I would create them for on their behalf, you know, to just sort of respond to or initiate difficult conversations. And that would came from that idea came from my experience, teaching the, or doing the training workshops, I should say, in communications, where there were people who didn’t know how to tell their employee, they had body odor, or, you know, didn’t know how to communicate with a difficult employee. And so I created the diplomatic scribe, and I started doing, you know, live script live streaming, when I think it was periscope came out, it was a periscope. And I did Facebook Live started, I was doing that. And I started, you know, coaching people and talking to different people, a lot of them were friends who have businesses were difficult situations, and I would write out their scripts on how they can respond to it. And that’s when I, I said, I’m going to start a business script writing difficult conversations. And that turned into a lot of sort of more coaching, and more listening to people sort of complain about the difficult situations that they were in. And then that’s when I knew that that business wasn’t going to work out for me long term, because I, I like the idea of, you know, not telling them what to say, because they wanted me to tell them what to say, but for them to tell me what they wanted to say. And let me script it for them. I didn’t, you know, never wanted to like be in a position to tell someone Well, this is what you need to say to your husband, or your boss or whomever. Unless, you know, of course, in the context of the training that was a little different. But I it started turning out that coaching was more of a coaching type of thing for people who were kind of wanted to just have someone wanted to prying someone’s shoulder about the difficult situations they were in. And so I still love that brand diplomatic scribe, I still have my young, my email address with that. And, um, you know, from time to time, like I had a project that came up where a guy needed to write an apology to and it wasn’t my project, I actually pitched for it, because I just kind of saw it somewhere. I was like, I’m gonna pitch this under the diplomatic scribe, and in the guide needed to apologize to a fiance, his ex fiance, with whom he broke up. And so I pitched that I didn’t hear I haven’t heard back from him. But things like that. I still will probably, you know, as we’ve talked about my what I’m currently doing, I probably always do things like that as well. But I do not want to coach anyone. I don’t want to, you know, be your your coach.

Todd Jones 38:08
Yeah, what sounds like you turn into counseling sessions and that’s not what you wanna do. Yeah. So you know, I can see you under the Diplomatic Scribe banner doing, like, packs of scripts. You know, we’re certain things that are interchangeable. This is kind of like a framework. Okay, this is apology letter. This is a play hard. You know, it sounds like you could do that you can create something under that brand. But so, really cool, how all that lines up to where we are in the story. And you are doing this See Jane Smile. brand. Now. Can you tell us how you went from everything we just talked about? to cross over to doing the See James Smile?

Mele Williams 38:59
Yes. And you know, how they say in the What is it? The? The infomercials, wait, there’s more, you know, that type of thing. Right before the My mother died in 2014. So I’ll say this. She died in 2014. And she had, my mother has, you know, you know, there are a lot of women and people who don’t like conflict, you know, they would rather just kind of make peace because they, you know, for various reasons. And my mother was a very strong person, but she was like that. And so, when she was diagnosed with cancer, she had a really hard time dealing with her diagnosis. She was given just a few months to live. And because she felt like I should there’s so many things I should have said to people, you know, people who my brothers, my younger brothers who did things with whom I did things for or my, my, my husband in particular and so I remember having coffee decision with her best friend and saying, you know, I really wish my mother would have, you know, kind of not put herself on so much on the back burner and would have spoken up for herself a little bit more, you know, not argue with anyone, but just said, Hey, you know, I don’t want to cook dinner today, maybe we’ll you know you, I’ll help you prepare your picture on sandwich or whatever, like to my dad, for example. And her friend said to me, Well, she’s not like you, she’s not like you, meaning she doesn’t have your personality. And I thought at that time that, you know,

speaking up for yourself should be more about a process than a personality. And again, that’s kind of how, you know, I was doing the diplomatic scribe a little bit of that. And that was my mindset, then. But then I said, Well, how can I make this even bigger and i actually purchased, it didn’t even get off the ground. But I created another website at the time. And this was something that I was really, really serious about, but I’m helping public officials, with their communication, so and with a specialty on public apologies. And I hired a person to help me with design that business, that idea and that, you know, I had the website and all of that, and had actually spoken out to some politician saying, Hey, this is something I’m going to do. And then my dad got sick, and I had to move them to my state. And my sister had a, some personal issues. And I had to deal with that, because I was her became her power of attorney. I mean that and that’s what I said to my coach, the time I’m dealing with my own crisis, crises, I cannot do the diplomatic scribe and make that a crisis communication business. And so again, I was taking care of my dad. And during this is how we get to the scene, Jane smile, during I was sitting by his bedside. And I remember the conversation I had with my mother’s friend, you know, about, hey, you can speak up, but your mom’s not, that’s not her personality. And I said, I’m gonna create some way of doing this. And I had thought about, you know, maybe like a journal of some sort to help people like, sort of, kind of, you know, write out how they would set boundaries and that type of thing. And then I just hit me, what about a greeting card? What about a, something that someone can send to someone else, with whom they may not be ready to face talk speak to face to face, but they can write a letter to them. And instead of texting them, or sending them an email, and being blocked, you know, because you can block people can block you, they can’t, they’re going to open a car. And that’s that was what was running through my mind. And so, my dad’s best, I remember, I was jotting down ideas, jotting down ideas. And then that led to a spreadsheet of many different sentiments that became at some cards. Wow, within my line, see Jane smile. And the reason it’s See Jane smile, is because my mother, um, you know, was not a miserable person, I don’t want to, I want to, I don’t want to present it like that. But you know, she had a difficult, you know, time for a short time there when she was taking care of my dad, and she wasn’t really always very happy. And so, you know, I feel like sometimes with women in particular, because this is a specialty for women, that, you know, we may be holding on to resentment and not saying what we want to say. And always, only we do it, say it, it can it can help with leasing that resentment and help with the relationship and not just between men and women, because a lot of people think it’s about, you know, speaking up to men, but but a lot of the ideas that I had that went into some of these sentiments for these cars were, you know, conversations that I would have with some of my friends, you know, or friends or friends would tell me stories about, you know, their mother in law or their mother or their best friend that they are having a hard time speaking up to. So that’s how See Jane smile was born. is Jane, your mother’s name. Now, I just you know, do you remember the See Jane Run? Yeah, they can. Dick and Jane book. Yeah. That’s kind of how I came up wrong. Yeah.

Todd Jones 44:23
So in light of the actual topic, well, the podcast storytelling, it sounds like storytelling from your friends helped you with some of the sentiments?

Mele Williams 44:35
Yes, yes. And my own actually my own, you know, situations because I used to, I don’t want to I don’t want to say I judge my mother. But I thought okay, well, you know, maybe it is a personality thing, like her friend said at one point. But then I experienced my own, you know, the reluctance with sort of speaking up and I think consider myself to be an assertive person. But I’m also very, I kind of sort of get into the shoulds, you know, oh, I shouldn’t do that, or I shouldn’t say that. Or, you know, especially when the emotional stakes are high, you know, if I have a good relationship with that person, his relationship, relationships are important to me. And so, yeah, you know, I don’t want to, you know, your anyone’s feelings.

Todd Jones 45:26
Some people talk about our life as a story. And, of course, every story person has their own, you have multiple stories, you have a narrative, you have a narrative around you, and that particular friend or a parent or a spouse or whatever, loved one. From what I’m hearing, and I just thought this, while you’re talking so your, your sentiments, has the power to change that narrative, right? Well, hopefully, to the positive, obviously, it depends greatly on the reception of the person getting the card, right, they may receive it well and may not receive well, but it can at the very least it can change the trajectory of that particular narrative. Do you see it that way?

Mele Williams 46:12
Absolutely. And that’s sort of why I created it, and not, you know, only for change the trajectory between, you know, with that within that relationship, but also with that person, you know, if I have an issue with you, time, let’s say, you know, you know, I’ve said something that I didn’t like, or if it’s something I don’t like, and, and I don’t give you the opportunity to know about it, you know, then not only can you not, maybe fix it or explain it so that I understand, but I can be holding on to sort of resentment forever. And that’s not good for me. And that’s why, you know, I try to present this as not testing a company that helps people communicate better, but also a company, and more. So I would say a company that will help that woman sort of get let go of that resentment, as I said before, and change the trajectory of how she deals with life. Because I don’t know, you know, we run into people in grocery store lines, and, you know, you see videos of people fighting over just crazy things, you know, though, before, you know, they’re, they’re going after themselves at each other, going to blows. And if there’s a lot of things that could be going on with that person, they could be mad at someone else, you know, I mean, we I’m sure, you know, we’ve seen it all the time. You know, like I said, from the grocery store to the workplace. And so resentment, letting go resentment was really a major part of why I created the business in addition to the communication part, but getting stuff off your chest, you know,

Todd Jones 47:49
Let’s bridge that value gap. If you watch my latest video, I talked about four stories that every business should tell one of them is the value, the value story. And that Kindra Hall, the writer of Stories that Stick talks about bridging the gap, to help people go from initial release the difference between benefit and feature when you think about it, but your cards are like, you have their cards, right and a greeting cards. So physically, what you get is a greeting card. And they’re, they’re available in bulk, from what I understand, I mean, I guess you, you don’t really sell them as individually sell them. So they’re really big, we can talk about in just a moment that the types of people that you think, would be a target for that as far as like, counselors or whatever. But let’s bridge the value gap, somebody, you know, let’s let’s maybe, you know, have a story, in particular how the card has generated or facilitate peacemaking between a couple people or something like that, you know, or how someone has used the cards for clients or whatever. You have some story that way.

Mele Williams 48:59
Yeah, I, um, I have a client and first of all, this is a relatively new business. And before I even actually launched my website, which just launched a few days last week, I sold a two sets of the cards to a woman who owns a hair care company, she has the president of a haircare company, and she was giving out self care boxes for her clients. And she wanted to include them in her her I guess, self care kit. So she would also have in that kit, you know, like Roma therapy stuff and candles and things like that a lot of self care items. And she considered those cards to be a self care item, which was cool because that’s how I how I created them not just again, just for communication, but as a item to help with emotional self care. So that’s how I am marketing them and marketing them to any business businesses that focus on I say female-focused businesses because it is, you know, for females, but also any but primarily, I should say more specifically fashion and beauty brands. And the story behind that is because a lot of times a lot of fashion and beauty brands give out what do they call kit kits with purchase, gifts with purchase gift with purchase kits. So, you know, anyone you know, if you they buy, if you buy, I don’t know $20 worth of products from us, we’ll give you a free lipstick, or a free lipstick and nail polish. Well, my proposal is that you include this in your kit, and not just lipstick something very, very different. So that’s my, my business model. And also and this is that with the help of you and the group, we’re both a part of the back room cafe back room. I also hope to work with people in within the personal development space, too. They have companies or companies, clients that need to set boundaries, you know, that they could use these cards for that reason to help them as a gift with purchase or as a bonus for buying a coaching program. Things of that nature. So I’m excited about working with that population.

Todd Jones 51:34
We talked about it a little bit of that you were on the hot seat a couple of months ago. Yeah, yeah, in the Backroom. And so we I mean, I know I brought it up, I’m thinking somebody else did too, but about working possibly with counselors and using that with abuse victims and that kind of thing. I don’t know, if that’s something that I can see that being helpful in that regard.

Mele Williams 51:56
Absolutely, yeah, I definitely plan to approach them. You know, one of the things that, you know, is behind any business story is figuring out how to the best way, the best model to make money that also interests you and also is beneficial. And, you know, and so in fulfills the mission. And so the best way of sort of working with the fashion and beauty brands and, you know, even like maybe fashion magazines, I remember, you know, I know a lot of magazines are starting to go digital now. But um, you know, there used to be like, when you got a subscription to a magazine, there would be something stuck in that plastic there. Like a little gift, it could be a perfume pack, or what have you. So I envisioned that type of thing, as well. And so it’s it’s, you know, I had to really think about the business model, if I could just work with coaches and personal development, folks, and therapists, you know, that would that would be, that would be awesome. But I also feel a need that to help people within the fashion and companies within the fashion and beauty space, better connect with not better connected, because it’s not like they’re not doing a good job, but connect emotionally with their, their customers, you know, so that we’re not just selling you, you know, a dress lipstick, but we also understand your emotional needs as well. Right. So that’s, that’s kind of the story behind that.

Todd Jones 53:22
Yeah. So and I was thinking about this because you threw out the word mission a while ago. Do you feel like you have a mission statement, a mission? I mean, obviously, I think self-care is a part of that. But I mean, and communication and women, but if you put it all together in a mission statement, or just

Mele Williams 53:44
well to help with women help women take responsibility for their own happiness. So that is, you know, I’m

Todd Jones 53:56
Pulling the site up, because I want to go to the page, and I’m thinking you have something like that on there. But we’ll put the website, obviously in the show notes for people who might be interested and getting the cards and you know, maybe someone listening could use it for their employees or clients or whatever. Have a lot of female entrepreneur friends I do. And they’re totally great, great at what they do. And I, I learned from so many people of all different, you know, whether it’s female or male or different countries, whatnot, but some of the females I know are just, I mean all, you know, yeah. And they tend to be less. I don’t want to say, I want to say they tend to be a little less boastful about themselves. They just go about and do their stuff and do it. Well. us guys can be a little more boastful. Not everybody, I mean, not very boastful, but I do have a number that in Figure someone Listen to this. And I’ll be encouraging people as well. Because I think it’s a worthwhile conversation and story. I’m thrilled for you. I’m hoping that it is really cool to sell something before you actually ever launched. launch it. So that’s a, that’s an awesome, did you put that in in the background as a winner? You should probably do that.

Mele Williams 54:03
That was back in December of 2000. And last December 2020. So it was way before that before I launched and

Todd Jones 55:28
yeah, that’s, that’s cool. And it’s kind of about it feels like validation to whenever you do that. When you when you like, oh, somebody wants to buy it. I hadn’t even really launched it, per se. So

Mele Williams 55:39
Right, right. And it’s funny, because I was pitching her for a freelance writing gig she was doing, you know, she has a physical product. So I was like, you know, I’m developing a physical product, I need to sort of practice writing product descriptions. And so I, you know, told her what my background was, and she was like, Well, you know, I really have selected someone who’s, you know, has actually has experienced direct experience with haircare. But tell me more about these cards. And we started talking

Todd Jones 56:14
about last year before

Mele Williams 56:15
Yeah, I did. I had them. I had I it’s funny I am. And this is where, you know, some of your listeners, listeners may relate, you know, when you’re working on something, and then fate hits you something bad hit you. I think you probably may know that. I had I found out I had that my appendix was hadn’t burst. But it was like they call it smoldering appendicitis. Yes. That was back in 2020. And it was funny was the day two days after I had a photoshoot from my website. So I did have my cards already developed, I have my samples and all of that. But I was down for a pretty long time. And then in March of this year, I had some complications from the appendicitis even though they had taken my appendix out. So I’m like, oh, my goodness, what am I gonna launch this company officially, but I was able to, you know, as I was recovering from my I remember, I got my appendix out one day, and I shipped this woman, her cards. The next well, not the next, maybe two or three days later. So yeah, that’s another twist to the story.

Todd Jones 57:27
So the last minute adversity, and there’ll be more to come? Because that’s how life works. Right? Yeah, you’ll, you’ll probably come back and tell us about the adversity you had growing the business. So someday, so. So, so what I’m trying to ask, and I’m sure I’ll get better with how to ask it as we go. But how do you feel like storytelling has made an impact? either in your career when you know, your career so varied? Or, and or the the cards that see Jane smile brand that you have just launched?

Mele Williams 58:01
Well, you know, the this storytelling is vital, and intricate. I mean, it’s vital to my business. I mean, it’s, uh, I don’t think I would have had this business if I didn’t have a story. You know, it started with as, as I explained, my mother’s you know, her situation. And that’s how I developed this. And if, you know, if your listeners if they visit the website, they’ll be able to read that story on my about page, right. But story is, this is an example I believe, of a story, you know, resulting in a business instead of a business. And then there’s the stories sort of behind the business, but I wouldn’t have had this business without this story. And I think,

Todd Jones 58:47
yeah, the the the conflict if you if you use a storytelling language that you experience, and it was not just your complex, I mean, was your your mother’s own conflict, your conflict within that actually created the problem that you had to find the solution for? So that it’s just yeah, and I’ve seen a lot of stories lives that way. You see it a lot in the startup community. And I just do think those are more compelling. I think the mission is stronger, usually, in a situation like that’s not to say somebody can’t start a business and do really well. And you know, another guy that I worked on a project last year, or earlier this year from Canada, who’s has a transportation business, he’s been uber successful. I don’t know what the story is behind that. But what I do know because I worked on the story for the back page is the story that led him to do all of his philanthropy, and that’s compelling in itself and in the background, his businesses chugging along. And he goes through all these experiences and it leads him to do things like that. help kids get off drugs and help the homeless on the street and those kinds of things and ship medical equipment to third world countries who need desperately need it. And so these things are just is a driver for mission. There’s that word, right? Yeah, that’s something we do, whether it’s see James smile, or, you know, a nonprofit or a company, you know, we have a company in town that they sell tacos. But for every taco you buy, they donate so many so much money to Feed My Starving Children. And that’s the mission and it catches on. And they now they started here in Conway, Arkansas, it’s called Tacos4Life. And now they got chains all over the country. So it’s a wow story. And those stories are so impactful. And I think you have, you know, you probably wouldn’t have drawn that up that way. But that’s exactly what happened with you and in what you’re doing. But here’s the other thing I see. Because I listen to your story. I didn’t know like three forces, right? So everything you did leading up to the point that you, you started, See Jane Smile, all those skills, pour right into that, right. And, I mean, that’s just, and it’s funny, when you when you listen to people tell that story of their career, how, oh, I can see how the legal helps, though the legal was instrumental in you doing the communication strategy. And the communication strategy was integral in you getting into writing what you wanted to do, and you were good as a kid. And, you know, did you did the scriptwriting and the scriptwriting depended on so much of what you learned communication strategy, and legal, I mean, it just all goes together. And it’s really, really phenomenal to see all that. So

Mele Williams 1:01:56
yeah, and I love the way you put that Todd, you can put it You mean, you put it so succinctly as to how it all, you know, kind of works together, you know, and I know, you know, you write about pages, and I think you’re going to do an awesome job of doing that. And I know you are doing an awesome job. Because one of the things that I had such a problem with is, you know, creating my own about page, because I had so many layers to the story, you know, so many sort of, like, I think of it like a I don’t know what we owe, and we have those, what are those things? Suppose whenever you’re coming out, you know, I, there’s so many spokes and it’s that sort of it leads to that in that center circle. And so, you know, people, people like yourself, were talented at taking all those folks and just kind of connecting it and creating it into an about page is an awesome skill. So

Todd Jones 1:02:53
yeah, about page. The, my opinion, the story you have to tell him about page has to be a specific point in time. And yes, yes, there’s a there are other places to tell that founder story, it can be a podcast, it can be an article, it can be an all the above, you can tell parts of it here, parts are there pulled together there, you can create a story page, just to tell the entire story. So it is a lot of ways to do this one thing I’m learning and for stories to tell. So we help to tell the founder story here. And this is the kind of thing when it’s out, you can say, hey, if you want to hear more about my story, listen to the podcast. So that’s something I have a formula that I use for about pages, that’s one of the formulas is, you know, sending them, or showing places where you is called credibility and answers. You know, things that whether it’s a podcast you’ve been on, or a video you’ve been in, or a summit you’ve presented at a live stream, those kinds of things that kind of showcases authority. So

Mele Williams 1:03:59
hey, that’s awesome. Todd, glad you put it that way. When you said that the about page is a whenever you put it a certain point in time. That’s that’s a

Todd Jones 1:04:09
story on your about page should probably be a certain point in time. And yeah, I was playing around with the term with a term and if I can, if I can pull it out of my brain, which kind of spinning right now. There was a term I use, and I can’t remember right now I’m sure I got it written somewhere, have a particular type of story, you know, but yeah, I mean, any compelling story should be a particular point in time. Even if it’s a, you know, six months through, you know, go watch a movie, right? You watch a movie, sometimes they’ll start in the middle of story and go back and then tell, you know, but it’s a particular point in time. I mean, you know, it’s hard to tell 30 years worth of stuff in a particular you know, page So. So you have the chronology, if you will, which you can put it up, pull it all together and go, yeah, this, everything, all the skills of all, everything I did pours into what I do now. And here’s how you can do that. Like I said, I had a particular word, and I can’t pull it out of my brain right now is cluttered with everything else. But there’s a, there’s a word that come with it. But really that page, the about page, I didn’t mean to get on this, but you have different kinds of stories you can tell on the about page, and one of them is a pivot, I call it a pivot. And so some businesses have a pivot. And that’s really important to what they’re doing now. So that’s the story I would think you’d want to tell on there. I usually want people especially if they’re a mission-oriented type of business, I really want them to tell the story that sparked that. So anyway, I don’t I don’t want to get into that too much. Because we’re here on your, on your story.

Mele Williams 1:05:59
Let’s see, I’m geeking out on that type of thing, Todd. So

Todd Jones 1:06:03
I have to make more videos about I need to do more videos about my about pages. But you know, it doesn’t, it’s hard to you know, that’s one thing he launched, like I Oh, I put up a landing page for it. And crickets. One day, you know, people will start buying it. But, and I’ve done about pages before usually as a part of an entire copywriting project. But the page is too darn important for people to skimp on. Yeah, I can put that on the landing page, the about page is too darn important to skimp on it.

Mele Williams 1:06:43
It’s awesome. It’s an awesome skill to have Todd and the reason I you know, that’s the reason I asked you about it, because it’s not just I mean, it’s very on topic to See James smile. And, you know, for me as your interview he because, you know, I did have a hard time figuring out what I was going to put on that about page and I said, Okay, well, let me just start at what, really what was behind that. But there were other things that the the major thing that was behind it, I guess the as she’s mentioned, the pivot, that was kind of that was what I did didn’t know I was doing it. And I, I kind of look at it. And I say, there’s so much more to the story. So perhaps I should put more. But you’re you’ve just kind of validated that you can’t necessarily get to do

Todd Jones 1:07:31
that. And you can do it in other ways. And that’s, that’s something I probably could do a video on. But the important thing is you actually did one and the number of people I see you just don’t have one, maybe because they don’t know what to say. I don’t know why. Maybe don’t think it’s important. But I’ve been looking at analytics on websites for 15 years, almost 15 years, without exception, the static page, the about pages number two in views, and wow, sorry. I mean, I talked to my other web, friends web development, because they see the same thing like now pages that high in the analytics for now, you may have a blog post or something that has more views, that kind of thing. But as far as your regular pages, it’s the home and then the about page. So the value for four one is pretty high. And you can you can make it in a way that it It helps optimize your business and, and do conversions, that kind of thing. But, you know, I’ve talked to actually was on a friend of mines podcast talking about it. So yeah, like I liked about pages, because it is a story part of the business. And so that’s that’s kind of where I mean, I’m developing my own brand story framework to as we go. So it’s not just the about page, it’s like, that’s like the that’s like the starting line to do the about page. You’re on your way kind of thing. So yeah, but anyway, I can geek out about this too. And maybe I’ll get out again, at some point. Some of this stuff just comes out of my head. And fortunately, it’s not on paper as much as it should be. But it just kind of comes out in my head. So but that that gives me food for thought. It’s like okay, I need to do this. And then you do that. Talk about this part about page that kind of like so. Appreciate that. But more importantly, Mele I appreciate you coming on the podcast and telling and sharing your story.

Mele Williams 1:09:27
Oh, so I I was excited. I mean, in still enjoying. I mean we can go on and on as far as I’m concerned. And like I said geek out with you on about pages, but I was so thrilled to do that. So it’s just the thrill that you asked me and you did not disappoint Todd so I pretty well,

Todd Jones 1:09:44
as we said earlier, for those listening Mele and I are in a. I don’t want to call it a copywriting group. Really. I mean,

Mele Williams 1:09:54
I see it as sort of a mastermind. Yeah.

Todd Jones 1:09:57
You know, that’s how I view it masterminds like if I I have to miss I’m pretty upset. Yeah, if something happens and I have to miss I’m pretty upset if I’m not feeling well, and I go it usually at least lets me up. Yeah. And so somebody says some sparks creativity gets your brain flowing. Even if it’s not about your own stuff. It’s just kind of so yeah, so it’s a mastermind. That’s how I view it. But I think Steve started it as a group of copywriters. Not all of us are considered straight up copywriters. But there’s a group of us, and so and more more members probably will be on the podcast as we go. But yeah, we’re in the same group. And I had heard her story because she was on the hot seat a couple months ago, and heard about it like this is really cool. And then when I finally launched the storyteller podcast, I’m like, Who can I get on the shows like, Oh, we got to get mellie on to talk about her, her new product, because I think it’s a great story. And if it helps you sell some cards, I’m happy with that, too.

Mele Williams 1:11:03
I appreciate that. Appreciate that. Definitely. And I’m excited for you. And I wish you all the best in your endeavors both with the about page business and your podcast. So I know you’re going to do well.

Todd Jones 1:11:16
Appreciate very, very much. All right. Real quick where can people find you and See Jane smiles on the web?

Mele Williams 1:11:25
Well, you can find me at see Jane smile calm. You can find me on Instagram at see Jane smile co so see James smile CEO. And on Facebook, see Jane smile. co as well. On on Facebook. And on LinkedIn under Mel zetta. Williams, that’s my formal name. Amy l zTa. Haven’t been hanging out there much. But I’m gonna hang out there more. So yeah, just, you know, connect with me. All those places.

Todd Jones 1:12:04
We’ll put all that information in the show notes as well. I’ve already got the lead the LinkedIn, no, I don’t have the link now how to go back and get the LinkedIn already got the Instagram and Facebook, in your website, URL in my notes, and we’ll go back and add the LinkedIn. And so anywhere else you want people to go find you. So we’ll put all that in the show notes if you’re interested in learning more about the cards or just connecting with Mele.

Mele Williams 1:12:32
Alright, sounds good. Sounds good. Thank you.

Todd Jones 1:12:36
Thanks for joining us Mele and we’ll see you again in the next episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai